Michael Russell leaves Michelle Ballantyne red-faced in Brexit clash

The pair were guests on Brian Taylor’s Herald podcast alongside former Scottish Conservative Party politician Peter Duncan and founder and director of the Scottish Centre on European Relations Dr Kirsty Hughes.

READ MORE: Michael Russell appointed political director at SNP's independence unit

National columnist Russell was quick in hitting out at the mess caused by Brexit.

He said: “We have a horrible set of problems and those horrible set of problems have been exacerbated or created by Brexit and it didn’t have to be this way.”

Ballantyne then accused the SNP of blocking the softer Brexit Theresa May had tried to introduce, then said that millions of people in Scotland voted for Brexit.

Russell quickly looked up the numbers and pointed out that former Scottish Tory MSP Ballantyne’s Reform Party earned only 5793 votes in the May Holyrood election.

In the video, below, Ballantyne admitted: “I never went into the election expecting to get a large number of votes.”

The guests on the podcast debated the impact of Brexit on Scotland.

Hughes said: “There are no benefits to Brexit, only costs.”

Duncan attempted to highlight potential benefits of the UK’s departure from the EU.

He championed the UK’s vaccine rollout and asked: “If the UK was still in the EU would we have opted to do things differently?"

As of June 20, 2021, the UK was only second to Malta in the number of vaccine doses administered, and Hughes reminded Duncan that there have been 50% more excess deaths in the UK than France and Germany, describing it as “ridiculous”.

Russell said: “This is a pathetic set of circumstances and Peter and Michelle should be ashamed of the damage they are doing to Scotland.”

Duncan continued: “I think Scotland needs more immigration. I think Scotland needs more people. I’m coming towards my latter years and in doing so am looking forward to my pension being paid and for that to happen we need more workers.

“We need our economy to grow, and I think Brexit is one route towards taking a decision on immigration that allows us to attract the best from across the world.”

Given that free movement has ended and workers who have lived, worked and contributed to the UK are having to jump through bureaucratic hoops to stay in the job and lives they have built, Hughes labelled the speech as “utterly absurd”.

Ballantyne, explaining why she backed Brexit, said: “I do not want to give up our flag and sit under an EU flag and I do not want to give up the British Armed forces and sit under an EU armed forces.”

The statement came on “One Britain One Nation” day, when three countries who have their own flags and identities are being coerced into telling school children how the UK is a “strong” and “great” nation.

Russell interjected: “The state of constitutional sclerosis that exists within the Conservative party and exists within its right-wing nether regions like whatever Michelle leads in Scotland is just astonishing.”

He attempted to reason with Ballantyne and point to why working together is an “established, good, positive way to do business” but was met with rage when he pointed out that presently the Conservative party contained people who “refuse to change” and are “encouraging the largest non-elected legislative chamber in the world”.

Ballantyne interrupted: “The EU?! The EU?!”.

Hughes said that she is asked: “What happened to the professional, pragmatic UK? Is it coming back?”

She continued: “What Brexit has actually done, is not only split Scotland from England and Wales but also, people in the EU look very warmly at Scotland and they know that they are their European friends and very sadly that is not how they look at the UK Government.”

Ballantyne said: “I think that is the difference between politicians and people in business, in the real world, working." She said some were "trying to inflate the problems".

Russell told Ballantyne: “We don’t need the problems. You made the problems. I’m sorry this is utterly incredible.”